Below is the full transcript of her interview where we dive into her coaching experience, achievements, and the realness:

Gabby: I’m Gabrella Ehioghiren, Gabby for short. I’m currently residing in New York City. Also, within AdTech industry Account Management and looking to move into Product Marketing. And I found Nadia through one of my networks on a Facebook group geared towards women of color within tech. She was recommended to me by another member in the group, and after that I looked her up, saw the work that you do with women of color specifically in tech and your background, as well. And I related so much. It made me feel so comfortable and I decided this is worth it, especially at the time that I found you.

Nadia: What is it that made you seek out coaching in the first place?

Gabby: That’s a great question. This question for me is two-fold. One: I was at a really bad place. I was working at an AdTech company within New York. I was doing account manager work as an account coordinator. I was being overworked, I was being underpaid, I was being undervalued. My self-esteem at the time was really low. I was lacking confidence and I was tired of it. I was extremely tired of feeling that weight day in and day out. So I made the choice to seek out help. I knew I wanted not just a career coach, but somebody that knows what I’m feeling within being in this industry, specifically as a black woman. And that their advice wasn’t just very cookie cutter. And that it was tailored to me, for me, based on their experience.

I had been looking for a career coach for months actually. I was looking for the right fit and I would know when I felt it internally. That’s how I decided to go along with you and it was more than just a career coach telling me what to do, what not to do and feel this way. But it was transformative in a way that sort of felt like therapy--and I’d been to therapy, so I know. And it was very much two-fold.

[~5 minute mark]

Nadia: So what was that transformation, as you said? ...it’s big to say the word transformation, so what do you think that was?

Gabby: It was hard work. When I say hard work, I think you really pushed me emotionally to get to the core of where this was coming from, before even trying to answer the question of “how do we increase your salary to something that you actually deserve?” It was essentially building that confidence back up, building that self-worth back up, building that knowledge base of you already know who you are, you have the tools, you know who you come from--the village around you, the circle around you. Reiterating a lot of points within that. And also asking really deep questions, we got really deep. I remember one [session] I was crying based on some of the questions you were asking me. When I really really thought about it realizing that wow, not only was I being externally undervalued, but I was done doing it to myself to kind of lessen that blowback. And that’s where I think a lot of the transformation and a lot of that work came through, especially for me because now in the place that I am, I’m able say no when I have an opportunity in my face, and they’re using their name to sell it to me, even if they would be underpaying me, I’m able to walk away and know that I have value and another opportunity will come that’s better.

Nadia: ...you did both my 6-month program and 6-week Badass WOC Negotiators program. In that you have a beautiful mix of 1-on-1 and the power that group work can give you, that’s guided by me in the group coaching. But when Gabby says for anyone listening, that she’s able to walk away from an opportunity, I want you to be specific, when somebody low-balled you before, what would you have done?

Gabby: I was low-balled before and I took it because it was presented to me as this is a great opportunity for you. You can work your way up. You can prove yourself. 

Nadia: And what ended up happening?

Gabby: [Laughs] and what ended up happening was, basically, I was stuck in that position as an account coordinator for two years then eventually doing account manager work, one level above me, but still getting paid as an account coordinator and being told that you’re still proving yourself. Especially in that environment, I was one of two black people, at least in that office...and not knowing who to turn to for advice and whether this is standard.

Nadia: And where are you now in being able to claim your worth? If someone were to ask you what have you done? What would you continue to do?

Gabby: At times I was thinking I should probably take it, right? Then remembering the work that we did. And before even saying no, being able to ask a lot of questions. Especially through the group work with [Badass WOC Negotiators] and hearing other stories from other women and what they go through, and seeing that it’s so similar with me and knowing I’m not the only one, but more specifically being able to ask questions such as “hey, do you have any flexibility on that rate that you’re proposing to me?” Being able to back it up with actual data that we compiled about my value, attaching numbers to that value. Saying sentences such as “hey, at this company I was able to increase revenue by 75% quarter over quarter for this specific client. I was able to do X, Y and Z. Here’s my track record and taking emotion out of it and being more so business minded...and knowing the conversation has to be hostile. It’s not a hostile environment.

Nadia: Right, everybody thinks negotiations are LIFE OR DEATH!

Gabby: Right? I did, too! I used to just avoid it. Doing the work, practicing conversations, writing the script if I needed to look back at it. Instead of folding into saying yes. So, a lot of work within that, and now being able to feel much more comfortable asking in the forefront.

Nadia: In the interviewing process, right? ...what I’m hearing from you all the time is “I used to wait until the very end of interviewing for the rate and the salary and the comp package.” And now you’re able to cut to the chase courageously, which is not easy for folks… women of color, the majority I work with, are so scared to ask about money up front. They’re just like--let me just get my foot through the interviewing door and let’s talk about it at the end, only to be disappointed. So how are you now getting to the front end of the interviewing process, getting to what compensation and salary looks like? And how is that impacting your interviewing process?

Gabby: I was also told advice like “don’t ask about money in the beginning. Let them bring it up” -- terrible advice, by the way. Really bad advice! But I think that’s changed, because now if the recruiter doesn’t ask up front, I now ask. Like, “hey, this is a really great conversation. Just want to make sure we’re on the same page, and I’m not wasting your time. I want to hear the salary range for this specific position that you have allocated for it.

Nadia: It’s as simple as that. And how is that working out for you?

Gabby: And it’s great, because now I’m able to decline certain opportunities, because I know upfront what I’m getting. And I’m not wasting any time, and I’m now pouring a lot of that time into opportunities that make sense for me and pour that energy into the interviewing process. It’s extremely helpful and I’m not surprised at the end when I get an offer.

Nadia: ...Let’s talk about goals in general. What goals did you have with coaching to start?

Gabby: … In the beginning, my goal was I wanted my confidence back. Crazy (laughs), because now I’m thinking about it -- what? Where was I? I wanted my confidence back. I wanted to build upon my personal branding. The last one was switching from account management into product with a 6-figure salary, where that is right now is...I’m also realizing, people don’t just give you 6-figure salaries. And I think a lot of that work with negotiations were tied into that. I thought it was that I’m not good enough. But not, you just ask for it. Ask for what you want.

Nadia: They don’t just hand you 6-figures. It’s all about asking for what you want. Something I tell clients all the time, which I think you’re truly embodying and living, is we have to speak for our work. When you’re saying I compiled my value, this is what I did for my company quarter after quarter, xyz. We have to speak for our work, our work doesn’t speak for itself, and just ask for what you want. And you’re not afraid of hearing no back. You’re not afraid of rejection anymore. You’re confident that, cool, on to the next. And you have the ability now, what I’ve seen from Gabby, for anyone listening, is that Gabby has the ability now to say “oh, no? So...what is the budget then? Oh, no? So what wiggle room might you have for the right candidate, which I believe is me? That’s what confidence is. … you’re still interviewing, but you’re interviewing like a badass. Full power. You don’t question is it me? You don’t take it personally because you know your worth, but how do you quantify the success and achievement of something like “oh I want to be more confident?” Because that’s hard for people to step into coaching, so what results? What does confidence look like? How do you know you’ve achieved that?

Gabby: Honestly for me, how I knew I achieved that was more so the power dynamics in the room. Again, I’m going to bring up talking to different companies, talking to different VPs or SVPs or different recruiters, whatever. Recognizing that based off their title, what I used to do was cower and think, this person knows way more information than me. Or this person knows so much more than me. Or this person is obviously much better than me because they’re at this specific title, and would acquiesce into whatever they were saying. Would give into whatever they were saying. Now with those power dynamics I more so think, ok you’re at this certain position, I could be there, too. That’s fine, but what I’m saying is valuable. What I’m bringing to the table is valuable, and the power of being able to walk away if it doesn’t work out. I think all of that has to do with self-confidence and not believing “oh you’re not good enough.” Or not believing “Gabby just take this, because you may never have another opportunity like this again.” Believing that I’m great, you’re lucky to have me. I’m making this easy for you and if it doesn’t work out, fine. And that’s how I knew I was building back my confidence, I wasn’t coming to the table out of desperation.

Nadia: And let’s talk about confidence as the only women of color in the room. What’s the change for you?

Gabby: Oh my god! Seeing it more as an asset, actually. I remember talking to you about this in the beginning, where I stated, people didn't really know me because I was closed. I didn’t really say what I was feeling because I knew whatever it was, it was going to be extremely different, because of my viewpoint. And then through coaching, using that as an asset. GREAT, you’re extremely different, and your viewpoint is different, because that’s what’s needed. And showing up, especially as a woman of color...the conversations that we have about heritage, family, the village--what our people went through. How they went through it...for me that’s really powerful. It reminds me that I’m not here alone. I don’t show up alone, and I have this village behind me. They may not physically be in the room with me, but they’re there. And you know, don’t let them down. What they went through is immense and girl, you can do it, too. Using that as an extreme asset.

Nadia: ...I remember when we started our work--look at how much you’re using your hands right now. Our first couple of coaching sessions we went over how do you talk during an interview, and you were so closed off, no expression, because someone, somewhere along the line said “you’re too much this.” And you toned it down, dialed it back, and I do believe that’s what impacted your workplace. How different would it have been if you claimed your power, even in that work environment that wasn’t good for you? How much are we told as women of color to change things? Even in our last session, you were asking about your hair “should I wear a wig now? ...is it impacting my interviewing?” And the first question I always ask you is “well, what do you want it to be? Let’s not talk about that, because what is here right now. What are you bringing to the table, hair or not?” What’s coming up for you right now in terms of this confidence you've built? This ability to own your brand, own your body, no matter who is in the room? No matter what space you’re in?

Gabby: Me being able to have this conversation with you about things such as hair, I think that’s a topic that black women talk about amongst themselves, but actually talking about it publicly is kind of difficult. I think it was important for you to remind me, again, the work. This is why we’re doing the work, because you can show up as your full self. When you show up as your full self, you’re better. You don’t think about very miniscule things, you don’t think about things that don’t really matter. And that’s huge in terms of doing my best work… that was a big deal. And for anyone listening, I have not gone to any more interviews with a wig on.

Nadia: Yes, and how have they been going?

Gabby: Great! Fine.

Nadia: It’s so hard to get there. And there are still people going through massive oppressions. I mean there are articles out there of people getting turned down for their hair from ballets, work interviews--it’s still out there, right. It’s a real fear. We can’t say this fear doesn’t come from a real place. So what is it that you’re moving beyond? How has coaching helped you embrace I’m not scared of that anymore?

Gabby: You asked this question quite a few times, which made me reflect, which is, if I’m showing up to the interviews, and that’s how I am and they don’t like it. Is that a place that you even want to work at? Is that an environment that you want to be in? Wouldn’t that be a sign or red flag that this would be toxic if you were to come into that space? And isn’t that something that you were running from? You’re right, that’s a telltale sign.

Nadia: And here’s the thing. I’m never telling you what to do, because I don’t want you to not have a job. I don’t want you to not work anywhere, because let’s be real, that’s like every workplace--you may never find work if you’re looking for that “perfect space.” It’s just what are the standards you have for yourself as you enter a space? And what’s your non-negotiables as an individual? And you get to choose that.

Gabby: I think even having non-negotiables was something I developed through our coaching sessions. And that’s part of the confidence to knowing when to set those and how to set them, and knowing your boundaries. 

Nadia: Negotiations and interviewing, that’s the first step and that transfers into who you show up as a leader, who you show up as a team member afterwards. So we need this to be sustainable…. Is there anything else you want to speak about in terms of working with someone who specializes in working with women of color, particularly in tech, and how that impacted your coaching experience?

Gabby: First of all, finding somebody relating to your experience. Knowing where you’re coming from, knowing you’re not crazy. Especially when you go into the office and you’re seeing things, and nobody’s complaining about it, but you know it’s off. But thinking you’re crazy. That was important for me to have a career coach that knew exactly what I was talking about, that can call it out. Because I didn’t have a name for it...I’m going to bring it back again to the hair thing, past work place people came up to me touching my hair “is this yours?” Taking a look around at people in the office like is this not crazy to anybody? Because right now I want to get out of character but I cannot. Noticed I was being treated extremely differently when there were gatherings in the office and I noticed I wasn’t being invited or included and finding out through somebody else, I was thinking am I taking this personally? Is it me? I think it was important for me to be able to talk to my coach about little things like that, those microaggressions. And being able to hear confirmation that yes, that’s a thing. Yes, this happened. To call it out, to name it and then to find ways to address it, which is important. I was thinking to avoid it and you were like no, address it. [And I would ask] could we do that?

Nadia: Well that was the thing. That’s what you kept saying. Again, we want you to be able to do things within your power, within your comfort level--but a little bit outside your comfort level. But we never want you to be unsafe. There were just simple things that were like, why don’t you ask something like, “what does that mean? Or what makes you think it’s ok to touch my hair? Or could you not do that again.  And you literally were like, can I do that?!” Right or, you know, put your hands out there, what would it be like if you just interviewed with all your expressions and you just kept saying, “I can do that?!” There are so many things we can do, micro things we can do to really protect ourselves, set boundaries and kind of rise above it eventually. And you have made those tweaks. And that’s a testament to you being willing to do the work, being willing to invest the time energy, emotion, mindset, everything. Because it’s a lot of work to push yourself, to be able to show up without the wig, to be able to speak up and just ask “what made you do that to me?”

Gabby: A lot emotionally, mentally and definitely being able to be committed to the work.

Nadia: You’re so committed and I’m so honored to have witnessed that with you. 

Last couple questions: What’s the most important thing you’d say people should know about coaching with me and coaching in general?

Gabby: I think the most important thing….a theme that kept coming up was that you would be pushed, just a little bit with each session. I think you do a great job of making people look within, because when I was coming on I kept thinking about the external work. About hey how can I make this stop happening, hey, how can I get this? But a lot of the work was internal first and then going externally because I’m now able to answer those questions, because I’m good internally. And then also my favorite thing about working with you was the celebrations in the beginning. It was great, the wins, you’d call it wins and we’d do the cheers outwardly every session. Some days I would say nothing happened to me, I didn’t do anything great, and then we’d talk and I’d realize oh, I guess I did do something. Literally celebrating myself every two weeks or whether it was 1:1 or group coaching, and I think that’s very powerful and that’s huge.

Nadia: It is. I had some folks who were also 1:1 clients in the group they loved the celebrations, and I had some folks who continued from the group to 1:1 and they’re so stoked they get to still do the celebrations 1:1! And that’s the thing, it’s so important as Women of Color we don’t celebrate ourselves enough, and I find that with every single client. Definitely found it with you and I’m so glad you’re embracing that -- so is that something you’re going to continue?

Gabby: Oh that’s definitely something I’m going to continue.

Nadia: Ok, you gotta keep celebrating yourself girl, you are SO worthy of that. 

So is there anything else that you would like to add about the overall experience, that you’d really want folks to know looking at this or considering working with me.

Gabby: First of all, I think every woman of color especially should have a career coach to navigate these waters. By just guessing and checking I don’t think is the most effective way, but to have somebody in your corner letting you know you know this is the best decision, or asking questions about what’s actually going on in your environment, letting you know this is not normal. Because a lot of situations will happen to you just based off you being a woman of color within the workplace and I think everyone needs a career coach, and I think specifically with you. It was so nuanced, it wasn’t just cookie cutter. You showed up every day committed to this and it felt like you had no other clients. It felt like I was your only client and just remembering the information even little things I’ve told you the week before, being there throughout the week through tax through email through whether I needed a lifeline call. It was sososo important. I think everyone should invest within career coaching and I think specifically with you because it's internal work, it’s external work, it’s very focused on who you are as a person. And then getting to whatever goals you set in the beginning and I think you’re very committed to that. I think you make yourself extremely available whenever needed. You ask great questions. You also give great advice and I’m also doing it again next year. I’m not just talking the talk, but that’s my last takeaway.